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This a traditional letter column.
You are encouraged to write a letter of comment on anything that you
find worthy of comment. It will (may) be published in this column along
with my reply. As editor I reserve the right to delete material;
however I will not alter the undeleted material. E-mail to me that solely
references the contents of this site will be assumed to be publishable
mail. All other e-mail is assumed to be private. And, of course, anything
marked not for publication is not for publication. Oh yes, letters of
appreciation for the scholarly resources provided by this site will be
handled very discreetly. This page contains the correspondence for
September 1998.
From: Chip Hitchcock ([email protected])
“those who cut, dine” — as in Wendell Ing’s explanation that
the best pineapples never even make it out of the fields?
(“Gee, look at this absolutely perfect — Oops! I guess we’ll
just have to eat it ourselves….”)
From: Troy ([email protected])
I noticed while browsing your website that on the YA fantasy books page
the is not a reference to David Eddings. I beleive this to be a mistake.
From: Dazed and Confused ([email protected])
I personaly love you guys. You people rule. Please continue to print
“The Darwin Awards” on the Internet! You guys are great! KICK
ASS!
Was telling a friend the story of the fella detailing a medical report to his
insurance carrier as to related injuries of an accident while fixing or
erecting an antenna in his yard. Never kept a copy. Is it possible to
recieve one?
From: Nancy E. Wood ([email protected])
My name is Nancy E. Wood, and I live in Oklahoma City (THAT’S another
story entirely), and I found you in my early-morning stolen-moments on the
Internet. You bet I’m gonna bookmark you — let me put it simply — I
love your mind! I mean, when I’ve only been on your site for a few
moments and I’ve already experienced several out-louders (that is,
chuckles, giggles and/or guffaws), I know I’ve found a favorite spot!
(Besides, I’m a prairie junkie, and I’m drawn by your S. Dakota roots…)
AND your wonderful diversity and attitude. You go, guy, and thanks a
lot… I’ll be checking in periodically.
So do check in now and then; like an old compost heap, it just gets riper
and richer.
From: Mona ([email protected])
Do you know where I can purchase Rocky Mountain Oysters?
In short, check with your local butcher.
From: Alan Sokal ([email protected])
Dear Mr. Harter,
I saw your comment on Dawkins’ review of our book Intellectual Impostures.
Let me make a few remarks:
You note, quite correctly, that
I’m not sure whether you’ve yet had a chance to read our book,
or are responding only to Dawkins’ review, but let me assure you
that we discuss this point explicitly in the book. For example,
at the beginning of the Deleuze-Guattari chapter we say
In the chapter on chaos theory, we criticize confusions concerning
the words “linear” and “nonlinear” (citing quite a few egregious
example), and go on to say:
That is what is going on in the Baudrillard passage you allude to.
Dawkins quoted only the final sentence
and you are right to note that
But here is the whole Baudrillard passage as quoted in our book:
This distortion of causes and effects, this mysterious autonomy
of effects, this cause–effect reversibility, engendering a
disorder or chaotic order (precisely our current situation:
a reversibility of reality information, which gives rise to disorder
in the realm of events and an extravagance of media effects),
puts one in mind, to some extent, of Chaos Theory and the
disproportion between the beating of a butterfly’s wings and the
hurricane this unleashes on the other side of the world.
It also calls to mind Jacques Benveniste’s paradoxical hypothesis
of the memory of water. …
Perhaps history itself has to be regarded as a chaotic formation,
in which acceleration puts an end to linearity
and the turbulence created by acceleration deflects history
definitively from its end, just as such turbulence distances
effects from their causes.
This use of the phrase “chaotic formation” just after a reference to
the scientific field of Chaos Theory and its “butterfly effect”
makes clear that Baudrillard is intending to exploit the connection
with chaos theory. That is, either (a) he intends the word “chaotic
formation” in its technical sense, in which case he is wrong; or
(b) he intends it only in some non-scientific sense, but then he has
no right to exploit the connection with chaos theory unless he is
prepared to supply an argument connecting the two senses.
Note also that the essay from which this is extracted is entitled
“Exponential instability, exponential stability”, and that the text
after the quoted sentence continues as follows:
But the exponential instability version is not the only one.
The other is that of _exponential stability_.
This latter defines a state in which, no matter where you start out,
you always end up at the same point. The initial conditions,
the original singularities do not matter: everything tends towards
the Zero point — itself also a strange attractor …
Though incompatible, the two hypotheses — exponential instability
and stability — are in fact simultaneously valid.
Moreover, our system, in its _normal_ — normally catastrophic —
course combines them very well. It combines in effect an inflation,
a galloping acceleration, a dizzying whirl of mobility,
an eccentricity of events and an excess of meaning and information
with an exponential tendency towards total entropy.
Our systems are thus doubly chaotic: they operate both by
exponential stability and instability.
It would seem then that there will be no end because
we are already in an excess of ends: the transfinite. …
Our complex, metastatic, viral systems, condemned to the
exponential dimension alone (be it that of
exponential stability or instability),
to eccentricity and indefinite fractal scissiparity,
can no longer come to an end. Condemned to an intense metabolism,
to an intense internal metastasis, they become exhausted
within themselves and no longer have any destination,
any end, any otherness, any fatality.
They are condemned, precisely, to the epidemic,
to the endless excrescences of the fractal and not to the
reversibility and perfect resolution of the fateful
We know only the signs of catastrophe now;
we no longer know the signs of destiny.
(And besides, has any concern been shown in Chaos Theory
for the equally extraordinary, contrary phenomenon
of _hyposensitivity_ to initial conditions,
of the inverse exponentiality of effects in relation to causes —
the potential hurricanes which end in the beating of a butterfly’s wings?)
It seems clear that Baudrillard is mixing non-scientific and scientific
terminology, without giving any argument (much less any valid argument)
for the connection.
Perhaps this context might lead you to revise your judgment that
Best wishes,
Alan Sokal
I am at a disadvantage also in that I have not read anything by Deleuze
and have no interest in doing so for reasons that you might appreciate.
I do thank you for the fuller quote of the Baudrillard passage; it
supports your case far better than the brief paragraph that Dawkins quoted.
It is well that you included the material both before and after the brief
paragraph; there really is quite a difference in character between the first
three paragraphs and the continuation, so much so that it is hard to credit
that they are by the same author. Here are some comments of my own.
After the three paragraph passage which you quoted in your book you remark
here:
Tangentially, that expression, “chaotic formation” is a problem. If the
text is a translation (which I suppose it to be) the original expression
may carry different connotations.
If you want to argue with this text (and you should) there are other things
that you can point at. In considering these three paragraphs in isolation
there is a problem because we do not know what he means by the end of history.
One meaning that occurs to me is that history loses its importance either
because (a) change occurs so slowly, e.g. human pre-history, that it operates
on a scale vastly larger than human lifetimes, or (b) it happens so rapidly
and chaotically that the past is a useless guide to the future. Another
meaning is the common conception that the era of vast historical movements
(in so far as there are such and the traditional labels are not simply
artifacts of histriography) is coming to an end.
Be that as it may the sentence “This paradox … cannot be located” is wrong.
“non-linear” and “non-Educlidean” are metaphors; there is no problem, per se,
with using them as such. However they are being misused here – it is not
true either in the technical sense or in the metaphor that “it is a fact …
the end cannot be located”.
There is another, more important confusion which becomes evident when one
considers the title and the subsequent text. In the first two paragraphs
Baudrillard is talking about the effect of foresight; later on he is talking
about the exponential instability. “Exponential instability” occurs when
there a feature grows proportionately to its size; such growth always hits
limits. The possible consequences are well known and well studied. Foresight,
i.e., the fact that people act on potential and predicted results, is not
the same thing and it has different consequences. In short, he is again
misusing the metaphor.
Still, the paragraph that Dawkins cited makes sense standing alone and the
paragraphs preceding it are scarcely atrocious. The subsequent paragraphs,
however, more than justify your critique, e.g., the paragraph on “exponential
stability” has the zero point as a strange attractor.
The final paragraph that you quote is so florid in its verbal excesses
(though I do like the imagery of “intense internal metastsis”) that it is
difficult to say what is right and wrong with it, other than the inanity of
final parenthesized remark. Here, I think, it is legitimate to say that
he drawing heavily on chaos theory in its technical sense and is misusing
it badly.
You remark at the end that:
I grant that this is true insofar as it goes but it is not quite to the point
in my opinion. It is legitimate to use scientific concepts (and even terminology)
as figures of speech, as metaphors, as analogies, and in illustration. One
does not need to give arguments for the connection. However one needs to use
them well and this is just what Baudrillard does not do.
The general sense of what he is arguing is clear; it would have been much
clearer (and much more concise) if he had been less enthusiastic in his
use of “scientific” terms.
Again, thank you for writing.
Regards, … continued on next rock …
Actually, our book does exist already in English, but it’s the
UK edition (“Intellectual Impostures”, Profile Books, London, July 1998)
and the contract specifies that it can only be sold in the UK and the
British Commonwealth. The US edition will appear, as rumor had it,
in November (“Fashionable Nonsense”, Picador USA, New York).
But if you don’t feel like waiting until November, no one will stop you
from ordering the UK edition from Internet Bookshop:
http://www.bookshop.co.uk/ser/serdsp.asp?shop=1&isbn;=1861970749&DB;=220
In fact, it’ll probably be a bit cheaper ($15 against somewhere around $25).
You’re right that Baudrillard (and the other authors) have the right
to make metaphors and loose analogies. We discuss this, in fact,
in the Introduction to the book. The question we raise is:
What is the purpose of such scientific metaphors? Do they really add
to the readers’ understanding, or do they serve simply to (a) impress the
reader with the author’s erudition or (b) distract the reader’s attention
from the inadequacy of the author’s sociological theories?
You’re absolutely right that the main problem with the first three
paragraphs of the Baudrillard quote is the sloppy (indeed, irritatingly
sloppy) use of NON-scientific language, such as “the end of history”.
But we considered it beyond the scope of our book to address this,
even though it is the most important issue.
By the way, “chaotic formation” in French was “formation chaotique”,
i.e. it’s a literal translation. To my knowledge it doesn’t have any
special connotation in French.
After you’ve had a chance to read our book, I look forward to your
further comments.
The formulation given above of the question you raise has faults; I presume
the discussion is handled more clearly in your book. The alternatives presented
have very much the character of a “Have you stopped beating your wife” question.
Thus, for example, the purpose served (here one should be careful about the
difference between intent and effect) might be to muddy and confuse an otherwise
sound discussion. This, I suggest, is the case with the excerpt from Baudrillard;
he is getting at something important (the “End of History” is not in its own
right a sloppy term) and he is right to call attention to the concepts of
exponential growth and even of chaos but the manner in which he does it is
incompetent (in my opinion of course.)
A real difficulty here is that these concepts are popular. I must have at least
half a dozen popular expositions of chaos theory and complexity theory on my
shelves. They are good books; they are well written; and they are dangerous.
The problem is that they are expositions for the layman; they give an impression
of understanding which is adequate for an overview but not for application.
The result is that there are authors and readers who have absorbed the jargon
of these theories; they communicate at the level of that jargon.
This is quite different from some of the other examples that I have seen. Some,
e.g. Irigaray, have serious faults of understanding. Others (I suspect Lacan
falls into this category) are being playful – I do not credit that the derivation
of the phallus as the square root of minus one was written with a straight face.
None of this really addresses the question of when and in what way loose analogies
and metaphors drawn from science are appropriate. I shall be becomingly modest
and leave the answer to wiser heads.
From: Annette
I enjoyed looking at your website during a few stolen moments at work today.
(At home I have only lynx)
Very nice. I had seen the darwin awards around quite a bit, but I did not
who was responsible for them. I am giving you full credit when I send
them to other people.
From: Russell Allen
Hey there, I stopped by to take a look. Quite impressive! A veritable
truck load of ‘intellectual rubbish’!
There were a mass of links, and I feel these should have been more clearly
put into categories. Not having too much time, I could only look at one or
two of them. You see, this was my only problem. There is indeed vast
amounts of information here, but that alone does not make a good site! The
information must be well presented and structured, and I feel both these
could be worked on.
There is nothing wrong with the way you have laid out your site, but it is
far from perfect. A contents page which looks to be one big table with
something like 30 links is a daunting thing, likely to scare people off!
You need to split up your links into about three or four categories, and
clearly devide the contents page up into these categories.
So in summary, the content appears to be varied and comprehensive. It’s
just getting at it in an efficient way that proves a problem.
… continued on next rock …
I don’t mean moving information onto different pages; I agree with you on
that one. I mean just devide your existing load of links into about three
or four tables, for example, each with a header. You’re right that to
impose a tree structure would make things more difficult, of course.
Index of contributors
Other Correspondence Pages
Date: 09/18/98
Subj: Rocky Mountain Oysters
Even so. It occurs to me that in the modern piggeries the
mountain oyster crop would be an added extra. The piggery
people extract everything from the pig.
Return to index of contributors
Date: 09/17/98
Subj: Young Adult Fantasy
People have different opinions about what YA fantasy means and some indeed
would classify Eddings Belgariad/Mallorean as YA fantasy. It doesn’t,
however, seem that way to me. The Belgariad is, in part, a coming of age
story but it is genre fantasy. YA fantasy is, IMO, distinct from a coming
of age story and the story has elements that are not simply genre fantasy,
i.e., the group on a quest to dispatch the macguffin.
Return to index of contributors
Date: 09/13/98
Subj: Comments
SINCERLY,
Dazed and Confused
The Darwin Awards pages do seem to be popular. It’s always
comforting to know that somebody else can seriously screw up.
Return to index of contributors
From: DAISHA ([email protected])
Date: 09/13/98
Subj: Radio Antenna Story
I’m not familiar with the story. Maybe one of my readers has heard of
it.
Return to index of contributors
Date: 09/10/98
Subj: Ohboyohboyohboy
You are obviously a woman of rare taste, high intelligence, and exquisite
judgement. As you can tell I’m having a good deal of fun with the web site.
In theory it is a personal journal in electronic form and it is; however it
has turned out to be a humor e-zine also. That’s fair enough because I have
a funny kind of mind.
Return to index of contributors
Date: 09/08/98
Subj: Mona’s Oasis
Thanks Mona
I don’t know if it is still true (times change) but you used to be
able to get bull’s testicles at most butchers. They aren’t carried in
stock but they can be ordered. Calf’s and lamb’s parts are smaller and
are considered tastier; however they aren’t generally available – those
who cut, dine. Bull’s parts should be cut up into bite size pieces.
Return to index of contributors
Date: 09/03/98
Subj: Intellectual Impostures
If an author misuses terminology does this represent simple slop,
an innocent misappropriation of currently fashionable vocabulary,
a cancer in his or her thought, or even legitimate usage –
it quite often being the case that a word has one meaning in one field
and a quite different one in another field.
The main characteristic of the texts quoted in this chapter is
their lack of clarity. Of course, defenders of Deleuze and Guattari
could retort that these texts are profound and that we have failed
to understand them properly. However, on closer examination,
one sees that there is a great concentration of scientific terms,
employed out of context and without any apparent logic,
at least if one attributes to these terms their usual scientific meanings.
To be sure, Deleuze and Guattari are free to use these terms
in other senses: science has no monopoly on the use of words like
“chaos”, “limit” or “energy”. But, as we shall show, their writings
are crammed also with highly technical terms that are not used
outside of specialized scientific discourses,
and for which they provide no alternative definition.
Let us emphasize that we are _not_ criticizing these authors
for employing the word “linear” in their own sense:
mathematics has no monopoly on the word.
What we are criticizing is some postmodernists’ tendency to
_confuse_ their sense of the word with the mathematical one,
and to draw connections with chaos theory that are not supported by
any valid argument.
Perhaps history itself has to be regarded as a chaotic formation,
in which acceleration puts an end to linearity, deflects history
definitely from its end, just as such turbulence distances effects
from their causes.
The physicists do not own words such as acceleration, turbulence,
and chaos; they have meanings beyond the narrow definitions of physics.
The whole problem of speaking about the end (particularly the
end of history) is that you have to speak of what lies beyond
the end and also, at the same time, of the impossibility of ending.
This paradox is produced by the fact that in a non-linear,
non-Euclidean space of history the end cannot be located.
The end is, in fact, only conceivable in a logical order of
causality and continuity. Now, it is events themselves which,
by their artificial production, their programmed occurrence
or the anticipation of their effects — not to mention their
transfiguration in the media — are suppressing the cause-effect
relation and hence all historical continuity.
We shall not reach the destination, even if that destination is
the Last Judgment, since we are henceforth separated from it by a
variable refraction hyperspace. The retroversion of history
could very well be interpreted as a turbulence of this kind,
due to the hastening of events which reverses and swallows up
their course. This is one of the versions of Chaos Theory —
that of exponential instability and its uncontrollable effects.
It accounts very well for the `end’ of history, interrupted in
its linear or dialectical movement by that catastrophic singularity …
Now this passage is quite damning, not of Baurdillard, but of
Sokal and Bricmont and, at second remove, of Dawkins himself.
The comment that it meaningless from a scientific point of view
is bizarre. … Judging from this example though, Sokal and Bricmont
are deficient in their ability to sort out sense from nonsense,
which makes their entire enterprise suspect.
Alan Sokal
Department of Physics
New York University
4 Washington Place
New York, NY 10003 USA
Thank you for your interesting letter of commentary. You have correctly
surmised that I haven’t yet had a chance to read your book – I am waiting
for the English version (rumor sayeth that it will appear in November) as
my French is quite nomimal.
This use of the phrase “chaotic formation” just after a reference to
the scientific field of Chaos Theory and its “butterfly effect”
makes clear that Baudrillard is intending to exploit the connection
with chaos theory. That is, either (a) he intends the word “chaotic
formation” in its technical sense, in which case he is wrong; or
(b) he intends it only in some non-scientific sense, but then he has
no right to exploit the connection with chaos theory unless he is
prepared to supply an argument connecting the two senses.
Now this simply won’t do. The reference to chaos theory and the butterfly
effect in the second paragraph you quote is preceded by “puts one in mind,
to some extent,”. It is clear that he is making a loose analogy, pointing
to a general similarity. I can’t agree at all with your “no right”.
It seems clear that Baudrillard is mixing non-scientific and scientific
terminology, without giving any argument (much less any valid argument)
for the connection.
Richard Harter
I shall probably wait for the US edition. I am in no rush. When I get it
I expect that I will probably review it; I will let you know if I do. Have
you seen Science Wars, the book? If not, you may amused to know that your
name appears exactly once and is not indexed. Singularly tacky on Ross’s part,
I thought. The contents are quite varied in caliber and degree of fatheadedness.
I mean to do a long article on it; if I do and you are interested I will send
you a notice.
Return to index of contributors
Date: 09/04/98
Subj: Your web site
Thanks for the kind words. If you get the chance to visit it again do so –
it is, er, extensive.
Thanks for your input on the
potato sack/whore thread.
Thanks for mentioning it – it is not part of the path of wisdom to tell all
fools that they are fools but it does the heart good to prod a few fools
now and then.
Return to index of contributors
From: Dale Hanks
Date: 09/02/98
Subj: Darwin Awards
Thank you. Somewhere, a number of years ago, some unknown genius came up
with the original idea for the Darwin awards. There is no *official* version
although some people pretend that they are official. Credit for my listings
go to people who circulate humor lists, people who send in contributions,
and various web sites that keep track of the intelligence challenged.
Return to index of contributors
Date: 08/26/98
Subj: Web Site Reviewal Submissions
Thanks for the comments. I don’t recall having sent in my site for review
but I must have in a fit of tottyheadedness. Why, I don’t know, because it
gets quite enough hits as it is. To be honest I don’t think your suggestions
are quite to the point for this site. It is supposed to be like a used book
store, full of all sorts of odds and ends, a place you can browse in and
come back to time and again. I opine that a conventional tree structure
as you suggest is less efficient and makes the content less accessible
although I concede that a content tree would be less daunting. A paragraph
of explanation on the home page would be a good idea, though. Anyway,
thanks for your comments.
Russell’s suggestions were good ones and I followed. Regular readers
may have noticed the change.
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This page was last updated September 22, 1998.
It was reformatted and moved November 5, 2004